Early one Saturday morning, two friends were having a cup of coffee together doing what businessmen do - discussing business. Despite both being concrete contractors, their backgrounds, businesses and successes could hardly be different.

John Gains runs a $20 million business that serves the commercial, industrial and institutional markets. He founded his company 20 years ago with his brother Ted. They started out pouring patios, sidewalks, and driveways for home builders and home owners. John bought out his brother 10 years ago, switched the company's focus and grew his company into the machine it is today.

Terry Fulton had a far different introduction to the concrete business. His father owned and operated a small concrete company. Terry went to work for his father in the field at age 16 but moved onto other companies after dropping out of high school. He continued to work in the field forming, pouring and finishing concrete during his teens and twenties. For years, Terry rejected his father's invitations to join the family business.

10 years ago, after being frustrated by the poor leadership and unsteady hours of the companies he worked for, Terry changed his mind and joined his father. His confidence as a businessman grew so much over five years that he ended up buying his father out. The company pours residential foundations, driveways and patios. Terry's company has topped out at $2 million in sales.

During this morning's conversation with John, Terry revealed that despite hitting his financial goals most years, he really doesn't have any idea what individual jobs cost him. John sympathized with Terry's plight.