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JM: I heard recently that there is virtually no asphalt coming out of the Pacific Northwest.

EK: Right. Because there is such a great demand for the lighter grades. So now, they are not forced to supply it automatically. The supply is only what they choose to make, and that is part of what has really driven up the cost of asphalt. Last season, in January 2008, liquid asphalt was going for $289 a ton. It was over $800.00 a ton in September. The price has really been driven up, and part of that is because of the coakers and their ability to crack those hydrocarbons and make lighter grades. Of course, part of it was just what we saw with the crude oil pricing. Right now gasoline and oil prices have come down, but we are still going to see asphalt remain high because of the fact that the supply has decreased with their ability to crack it down to lighter grades. This is only going to increase. Even if oil prices drop, there will still be a great demand for recycled shingles for asphalt.

JM: Your approach is a wonderful one: going to the DEQ and having the guts to set the sites up. You had to start somewhere if you were going to get anywhere.

EK: Exactly. We really stuck our neck out there. It's still out there. We are trying to make changes and differences in the way things are done here in Michigan, and now we are going to the State to see if they will accept shingle waste as a cement kiln fuel. That will be another visit to the DEQ. At this time, that is not approved.

JM: I heard mention that you were possibly planning to expand into Indiana, and possibly Ohio. Can you tell us a little about that?

EK: We are certainly looking into Indiana. Indiana makes it a lot more attractive to do business there than Michigan. They have some really great programs, and they are very interested in us coming to town. They have pursued us to do this. It looks very realistic that we will head that direction. We are talking to Ohio as well.

JM: What are some of the incentives you are getting in Indiana that you are not in Michigan?

EK: For recycling, they have a variety of programs. As I understand it, for green projects and recycling initiatives, they will match you dollar for dollar on investment with a no interest, seven-year loan. If I buy a piece of equipment to use it down there, I obviously can't take it out of Indiana. With the Bandit being a mobile unit, I could only use it in Indiana if they help fund it. They give you money for seven years at no interest, which is certainly a gift. They are very generous. They also have some other grants available.

JM: How do you like your Bandit grinders?

EK: We are very pleased with them. They are producing a quality product.

MT: I agree. I haven't operated it, but I watch it run when we are at the yard. It's very easy to maintain.

JM: Generally how many tons of shingles do you grind per hour or per day?

MT: I think our best day was close to 400 tons. We are doing right around 70 to 75 ton per hour.

JM: What size is the end product you are trying to end up with?

MT: We are about 1/2" or less.

JM: Is that going directly into the hot mix?

MT: We grind into the gravel train trucks and they bring us the hot mix asphalt.

JM: What kind of percentage of shingles are they mixing with the asphalt?

MT: They are doing a 5% mix.

JM: All of this is going into parking lots and pathways?

MT: Yes.

EK: We need the DOT to write a spec so that it can be used in public roadways. They could decide to do a county project and make a county road with it, if they chose.

JM: Do you know of any of them that have done that?

EK: We are starting to talk to Muskegon County, and I know that Michigan Paving did some projects in Allegan County.